Euro-Copyrights discussion forum

[zuck]

Hello,

I go to the Video-Store and rent a Video-DVD. May I create a digital backup of this DVD ? Is CSS considered "effective" although every dumb DVD-burner-owner can backup any video-DVD at the ease of a mouseclick ?

Just to clarify the subject, this is about a single copy for strictly private archival purposes.

IMHO is this one of the most important questions missing in the FAQ.

Another important question is about possible consequences - what do we have to expect in the near future ?

[Olli]

[Guest]

Couldn't they also sue you for the court costs/lawyer fees/ect. which were necessary to get those "dammages" payed for. This would be where they do the most dammage.

[Olli]

[zuck]

@olli
thanks for your information. I was just worried because local roumors say that the german police has been instructed to scan cars for burned cd-copies during normal street schedule. (oops, difficult sentence, I hope I got that right)
I.e. the police stops you in your car, asking for driver license and car-insurance. The offices notices a (single) burned CD on the backseat. This seems to give reason enough to search the car, confiscate the CD and even search the house for more burned copies.
This makes only sense if bypassing a copyprotection is considered a crime.
All this doesn't fit together very well - but still I'm worried.

--
Zuck

[zuck]

1. Ist es erlaubt, eine Film-DVD oder eine Musik-CD, die ich rechtmäßig erworben habe, zum privaten Gebrauch zu kopieren?
Ja, soweit die hergestellte Kopie keinen Erwerbszwecken dient. Die gebrannte DVD oder CD darf also nicht verkauft werden. [...]

2. Ist es erlaubt, einen Kopierschutz zu umgehen, um eine DVD oder eine CD für den privaten Gebrauch zu kopieren?
Nein, das ist verboten. [...]

Also was stimmt jetzt ? Darf ich eine Film-DVD kopieren, oder nicht ? (afaik sind (nahezu) alle Film-DVDs mit CSS geschützt)
Das ist schliesslich der eigentliche Knackpunkt.

[Olli]

[Olli]

[guest]

Is CSS considered "effective" in the Netherlands? If not in which country is it considered as "effective".
What would happen in case my German friend would make a private copy at my PC is here in the Netherlands? Would it be allowed according to the German LAW?
What is considered as a copy (1:1)?, is for instance transcoding considered as a copy (Transcoding is required to shrink the size of a DVD, output quality is less so would be the same as an analog copy (I guess))

[Olli]

[guest]

Your thought is correct the new copyright is not yet affective in the Netherlands, however they expect that it will become effective the second quarter of 2004. Knowing the dutch parlament it will be the second quarter of 2005.
The fun is that in the Netherlands they state that you are allowed to make a private copy, however you are not allowed to omit the copy protection (also in future), in other words you do not have the right to make a copy. An another funny thing is that you pay a surcharge for every empty DVD €0,50 (+r) and €1,-- (-r). On the other hand in case I rent a DVD or CD I do not see a message saying "this disk is copy protected", so how do I know "as an average computer user" that I would omit a "possible protection". The question remains, what is a protection. I personally consider CSS not as an protection since it does not have for instance a password or a private key. The "De-makrovision" is also only a form of "protection" avoiding the user to make a backup to tape, since I have a digital source I would leave it digital and could consider to make a digital copy including macrovision.
Looking at the prize of renting a DVD it's not very interesting to make a copy since the prize for renting a film is less than €2.-- here in the Netherlands. In addition the expected lifetime of a "crappy copy" is less than two years and who wants to see his collection every month.

Personally I think that beside a few "collectors" not that many people are interested to create their own collection of several hundred DVD's. Of course there is the "black market" providing an DVD movie while they are running at the Cinemas. The quality is however low, so it would not be a competitor for original DVDs.

An another observation I made is the following. Lord of the Rings part 1 till 3 costs €39.90 in Germany, while in the Netherlands the dare to ask nearly €80,-- for the same (beside the subtitles). The question is who earns the most the producers or the various distributive trade organizations?

I agree with you that in case you make a private copy of any DVD or CD whereever in Europe nobody will bother you as long you don't share it with others.

[Robin van Lieshout]

[Olli]

> Fair enough. However the programs you need to copy these protections are illegal... so nobody will sell these programs. <

At least noone in Europe will...

[Guest]

Nobody will sell them, simply because they are widely available for free, and often in open-source. Barring open source and descriptions of how the system work will easily put law-makers on a collision course with the rights to freedom of expression.

[Guest]

Robin/Olli,